AWD #629: A Spirited Debate
A Spirited Debate
Summary: Never let a marine and a Tauran start talking politics
Date: 12/03/17
Related Logs: None
Kapali Toby Lleufer 
Observation Deck - Deck 3 - Battlestar Orion
The Obs Deck is one of the more quiet areas on the ship where people can come to get away from the hustle and bustle that goes with the rest of service in the fleet. The front of the room is a very large armored glass window to allow a dominating view of whatever is out ahead of the battlestar. Seats rise up at even levels, plush chairs and couches provided for the crew to relax in. During Condition One an armored plate is lowered down to cover the view and prevent the room from becoming a hazard and sealing it tight.
AWD #629

In the aftermath of the massive and wide spread action on the prior day, the obs deck has been crowded on and off since the cessation of hostilities. However temporary. The sight of Picon through the view port remains a reassuring glimpse of what passes for 'normal', and Kapali is just one of the many people who've cut time out of their day to get a good look. Standing with her hands in her pockets, she loiters near the large armored glass window, her breath fogging against the armored glass as she half listens to the conversation (which skews primarily toward speculation and 'where-were-you-when' conversations), and half watches the reflection of the room against the glass.

Toby having been on the fire control teams yesterday, Toby has an easy day today, good thing too really, given how his head is feeling. Dehydration combined with rotgut hangover, it's not pleasant, but at least the Obs Deck is relatively quiet. He's in his off duties and stands at the glass with his hands in his pockets just staring out. Not at anything in particular it seems, just out. It's not clear how long he's been there, but he doesn't seem inclined to move until a pair of lasses from Services accidentally jostle him as they move in for a view. They get a vague grunt out of him, but the incident seems to have spoilt whatever it was he was thinking about, for he turns away rather than settles back.

Glancing away from the reflections on the window, the view of the planet through the window, and away from the mixed grab bag of crew that are milling around the room, Kapali spots Toby as he's turning away from the view instead of back. "Shackleton," she offers by way of greeting, a nod accompanying her voice, eyes skimming over the assembled room again before back to Toby.

Toby catches his name and turns his head towards Kapali, noting the marine's presence. There's no immediate reply, as he tries to figure why he's been called out. With no obvious sign of a mob of her compatriots though, he comes to the conclusion that it's merely what it appears at face value, a simple greeting. Returning it with a nod he's clearly trying to work out what to actually say when the lasses beside him gasp in surprise. Turning quickly towards the glass again he sees the flashes of light of ships jumping in, and peers for a moment to try and work out if their friend or foe. "Arpay, I think," he states after a moment, to everyone and no one, "not cylons at least."

The flashes of light that herald the arrival of several ships in tandem has Kapali reaching for her sidearm, then forcibly pulling her hand away, instinct being what it is she knows damn well that a sidearm wouldn't have done her any good had that been a cylon assault group instead of the Arpay ships jumping back into orbit. She exhales, nice and slow, flexing her left hand a few times before she turns toward Shackleton and nods. "Those are Arpay ships, yeah," she confirms, squinting briefly at the profile of the ships before she makes her way through the mingling group to stand alongside Toby. "I wanted to ask, do you know if any of the maintenance crews need any extra hands to do any repair work after yesterday's action?"

The confirmation from another that he's identification was correct means Toby can relax a fraction. "Lot of them," he notes, tilting his head forward to indicate the group that just arrived, "good thing really." As the question comes his turns sideways to look at the marine, expression looking as if he's trying to work out her angle. "We lost three," he notes, almost blankly, but there is an edge of feeling there, "so we're even more short handed than we've been for months, but unless you're fully certed I doubt the Chief'd let you anywhere near the bays. Try Engineering?"

Kapali angles a nod at Shackleton, having glanced away from him toward the view through the armored glass and the sight of the Arpay ships in the local space above Picon. "Somehow it's surreal that there's more than three sides to the war that we're already fighting," making this remark quietly, a frown on her face. "We've the Cylons, which are really just the canners and their skinjob slaves, then the skinjobs which are really Piraeans or constructs of the Piraean which amounts to the same thing. There's us," she angles a nod at the window, "and then there's the Arpay and the canner giants that they're fighting. So that's five sides really, so far, and counting." She turns sidelong toward Toby, "And I'm sorry for the loss of your crewmembers."

"Don't forget the APF," Toby mutters, not sounding entirely happy about their existence, "Cylons, Lines, Ghosts, Colonial Forces, Arpay, APF. I make six, well, seven, if you count the independents too." He doesn’t expand on that one, not yet, but instead leaps to, "or eight, if you count One as separate from the other Lines." The distinction between their cylons, and the others the Arpay are fighting seems lost on him though, at least for now. The condolences are met with a slight nod of thanks before he adds, "we had a couple more Raptors jump in this morning, turns out they'd made it out of the fight at Caprica after all, jumped to P. So that’s two more crews no longer MIA."

"The APF are brain washed civilians or military personnel who were caught on planet, so they're an arm of the cylon occupation force and not independently operating under it's own accord; though the distinction between six or seven fronts to be fighting on isn't really that big of a mathematical shift," Kapali replies in turn, rubbing one hand over the side of her face then rubbing at the back of her neck with the same hand. "Putting two back into the alive column instead of the dead column should feel like a win."

<FS3> Toby rolls Mind: Failure.

"The APF," Toby replies bluntly, "may in part be brainwashed yes, but the lie wouldn't hold so strong if there wasn't at least part truth behind it. They recognised that the Colonial Government gave a shit about no one but themselves, but then made the mistake of believing the Cylons would be anything other an even more cruel master."

Kapali's attention snaps back to Shackleton with a look on her face that is equal parts shocked and confused. "How can you say that?" she asks in a voice that is rough with controlled emotion. "They're KIDS. They're just KIDS," she turns toward him, taking half a step in his direction before rocking to a halt and rests one hand suddenly on the cold glass of the armored window. "Some of those APF fighters are just kids. No older than twelve or fourteen, younger in some cases. They're carried INTO the fight by their own parents. They're to young to know, literally to young to know, right from wrong. Those kids don't stand a chance against that sort of brain washing. Yeah, the adults? I don't agree with your blanket assessment of -all- but it certainly applies to some, sure, I'll.. There's nothing new under the sun, Shackleton. It's still war, it's still bloodshed and mass slaughter, it's hatred and oppression and it's every war we've ever fought, humanity wise, since the dawn of time. How can you think that they're /right/?" she demands in a low voice.

Toby realises he's said too much as Kapali starts to react, and drops his tone to a harsh whisper that he hopes won't carry too far in an attempt at damage limitation. "I never said they were right, they're not, they're dumb fucking fools who fell for a lie. The lie just needed to be bedded in enough truth to make them think, for a moment, that it was true. That’s all they needed, a moment, and they got it because the Colonial Government has had blood on it's hands for decades. Last time I checked though, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the fleet never nuked any colonies out of existence. -That- is what the APF need reminding off. Remember though, it's thirteen as counts as an adult in some colonies, the marine's've used younger volunteers on Picon. They can use that as an argument just as easily as you can. They have their grievances, same as others, they just made the wrong frakking choice when the shit it the fan. If they can't be made to see that, then there's little option left, but think twice about condemning them for atrocities your own side has engaged in just as readily."

"The best lies are built on a foundation of truth," Kapali mutters in return, glaring at Toby and not quite nose to nose with Shackleton but she's turned to face him and at some point she'd taken a half step that almost carried her into his personal space. Almost. But not quite. She's a marine. A marine doesn't invade another person's personal space unless there's an assault underway. "You honestly think that there's anything left of their original thought that survived the brain washing process? A part that ticks along and thinks 'ho hum, just another day, serving my cylon overlords, guess they're only a little worse than the colonial government was, ho hum, better go shoot some colonial military when they show up'?" she demands in a voice that'd dropped low in response to Toby's lowered voice, but she's still saying it with a great deal of emphasis. "You don't think that if there's any part of their self left in there that can get past the programming that they wouldn't be trying to fight their way free??"

Toby is quite happy to lean in, keep this personal and low, although he's acutely aware of the sideways glances they're getting from others. Hopefully his reputation regarding marines will keep anyone from asking too many questions. "You honestly think someone has to be brainwashed to hate the colonial government?" he replies, tone harsh, almost of if it's something he's taken personally. "I don't know what the frak they're doing to them, or how it affects anything, but it doesn't take indoctrination, or programming, to rise up against oppression. -Especially- when the lie is so good. So don't you fraking dare try and paint a picture of everything being just frakking fantastic before the toasters turned up. Fighting against the Colonials? yeah, I can fraking understand that, it's just doing so when there's a worse enemy to defeat that is indefensible." His voice is still at no more than a harsh whisper, but it's clearly taking a lot of effort to keep it that way, and there's even hints of a building rage that’s causing ever so slight tremors as he holds it in.

A pair of MP's on their rounds come into the Observation Deck. Staff Sergeant Lleufer Ynyr and some other Sergeant who are speaking low are both in their MP uniforms. Ynyr however is only cleared for light duty and not fully returned to combat ops. Lleu's no longer walking with a cane and seems to be moving pretty well as he speaks low with the woman Sergeant, outlining some MP procedure to her for her newest task.

The pair of them stop over by the huge bay window view of Picon spread out in all it's lovely glory. The MP Sergeant asks the Master at Arms a question for clarification and gets a nod from the Staff Sergeant, "Yes, but in that case you leave it to the JAG to sort it out. Whenever there is any doubt about the legality of an issue, that's not our call to make." Lleufer's attention becomes divided, watching Kapali and Shackleton. (repose)

"Are you fraking kidding me?" Kapali demands in a tone that is struggling to be quietly incredulous. "Are you honestly saying that if there wasn't a war already on that it'd be ok, just fine and dandy by your standards, to sponsor an insurrection of some sort? Or a civil war? Rise up against the colonial oppressors and demand some sort of free state or something for the individual colonies? Because, boy howdy, wouldn't that just have ushered in a new age of hand holding around the campfire and an eradication of oppression galaxy wide?" she demands, tone of voice increasing, and breaks the cardinal rule by poking Shackleton in the chest with one fingertip. "Don't you try to tell me that you think that, if there /hadn't/ been a war on that everything would've been just so much better if the colonial government had been replaced by something else made out of sunshine and unicorn glue! No matter how /bad/ you think it is a civil war would have killed hundreds of thousands of people, and for what? Because not everyone is happy with how things are? Get a fraking grip, Shackleton, that's what voting is all about. Decisions are made by those who show up and the delegate that represents your planet is answerable to the people FROM your planet. IF you don't like the way he or she is doing things? Then VOTE someone else the frak IN, you don't shoulder a rifle and go start shooting up the place as a way of," and she struggles to settle on a word that's accurate and lands on, "sponsoring state change."

Tempting as it is to let his fists fly at the poke, Toby instead just balls his fists, he's on the edge of a mighty big cliff, but he's not stepping off just yet. "Look back through your history," he growls, "and not that tosh you were spoon-fed in school, look back and see what has actually happened. Open your fraking eyes. Voting does jack shit. I used to believe in it, when I was young, naive, foolish, but what happens if you vote for someone they don't like? Eh? I'll -tell- you what frakking happens, they send in the FRAKKING marines. OUR delegate, out forward OUR decisions, and OUR cities got bombed. OUR streets invaded. OUR families got murdered because YOUR government didn't like what we voted for. I saw my first war when I was 12, only it wasn't men with guns against men with guns, it was the full fraking might of the Colonial Navy against civilians with rocks. I've seen marine corp tanks roll over the bodies of children in the streets because it wasn't safe to collect them. So don't you -ever- EVER stand there and tell me that all I need to do is vote, because that’s exactly what we frakking did, and we were -butchered- because of it."

Even the MP Sergeant has noticed by now. She looks a little annoyed, voice low, "Shall we wade in, Staff?" Lleufer keeps his place at first, "People are allowed to have differences in opinion. I'd rather leave them to it to sort it out on their own. Unless they get /too/ loud and start disturbing the peace. Or come to blows." Even as he says that, Shackleton is starting to clearly get riled and his voice rising in anger.

In the face of the heated volume of Toby's ire, Kapali's anger flashes to a cold range by comparison. "So far in this war I've thrown a grenade into a crowd of civilians. I've opened fire on children carrying rifles as enemy combatants. I've killed men, women, and children whose only crime is that they were caught up in some program of the cylons and turned into weapons of war themselves. I'm a butcher, when the call requires it. I'm a killer, when the situation demands it. And if I have to kill and keep killing every day until this war is over, then I'll do it because that's the job that needs to be done when the orders come down the line. And every single one of those marines and navy that were ordered to do what they did because it was ordered of them? Are no worse and no different than anyone else who's ever put on a uniform, shouldered a weapon, and put their life on the line because someone had to do it and they were the volunteer who showed up for the job," and she's edged another half step toward Toby, head tipped back to say this up into Shackleton's face, the height disparity meaning that she's talking UP at him her at the end. "And if your history is so frakking precious to you, what the frak are you doing in uniform in the first place? Just biding your time with us, until this war is over, then going back to regurgitate the same poor-me attitude that led to you lot only have sticks and stones to fight with in the first place when the navy and the marines showed up? Maybe if you weren't such mud grubbers in the first place you'd have had better weapons and weren't so easily rolled over."

And people ask my why I hate marines!" Toby retorts dismissively, "you're all just a bunch of murder-happy fraking psychos who've been given a badge and told they're the good guys. You want to talk about indoctrination, try looking at yourself in a mirror for once!". He's not yelling now, but his voice is definitely raised. "You want to know why I signed up? Why I wear the uniform of those who butchered my family? I ask myself that every fraking day. I hate myself for it, every, frakking, day. But you know what, they're still worse than you, and that's why I did it. Soon as this is frakking done you won't see me for dust, but they took the only step you didn't and glassed my home, so if I have to wear your uniform to stop them, then I will." He looks like he's done, like he's about to step back and then away, leave, get out and go beat seven shades of shit out of a punchbag until he's worn the adrenalin and rage out of his system, but then comes the 'mud grubber' remark and it's took much for him. It's not that he so much as steps of that metaphorical cliff, more dives off it fists first. Fists to Kapali's head and face that is.

<FS3> Opposed Roll — Toby=body+melee Vs Kapali=reaction+reaction
< Toby: Great Success Kapali: Success
< Net Result: Toby wins - Solid Victory

The first swing starts and the Sergeant says low, "I should put money on the Tauron for this fight." Lleufer almost laughs, "Yeah, I've fought him. He's got a mean right hook." Ynyr lifts a hand to grimace sympathetically for Kapali getting a solid punch to her face. That's going to leave a mark. Almost leisurely the two MP's advance and Lleu lifts his voice, "Come on you two. Get a room when you are off duty, why don't you? Break it up." Both Sergeants come up but don't leap in to interfere physically right off. Verbal warning first. And hey, give Kapali a chance to get at least one swing in. "We've lost a lot of good people who didn't die just so you two can knock each other's blocks off."

Kapali's head snaps back and she rocks back half a step as well, momentum carrying her back that measure before she gives a single shake of her head, her lower lip cut on her own teeth, and wipes the back of her left hand across her mouth. She's aware of the advance of Lleu and the other MP and apparently doesn't give a frak because she retakes that ground she'd been rocked back with not one but two steps, invading the hell out of Toby's personal space and comes out swinging in turn.

<FS3> Opposed Roll — Kapali=Melee Vs Toby=Melee
< Kapali: Good Success Toby: Great Success
< Net Result: Toby wins - Marginal Victory

The time for reasoned responses has pasted for Toby it seems. He'd done well by his standards, but in the end all that meant was he had more rage bottled up that needed releasing. The MPs don't even exist in his sphere of attention right now, his focus is entirely on Kapali. As she steps in, so does he, this is to be no polite boxing match it seems, but something more brutal. As she swings he steps up again, aiming to get within her guard as the blow lands on his cheek. It doesn't seem enough to phases him though, as he attempts to bodily force her against either the bulkhead or the glass so he can rain blows in while she's pinned.

<FS3> Opposed Roll — Toby=melee Vs Kapali=melee
< Toby: Success Kapali: Success
< Net Result: DRAW

<FS3> Opposed Roll – Female MP=6+2 Vs Kapali=Melee
< NPCMP: Failure Kapali: Great Success
< Net Result: Kapali wins - Crushing Victory

<FS3> Opposed Roll — Lleufer=Melee Vs Toby=Melee
< Lleufer: Good Success Toby: Great Success
< Net Result: Toby wins - Solid Victory

Lleufer motions for the MP Sergeant to try and get Kapali from behind and he'll risk trying to grab the Grizzly Bear Tauron and see if they can pull them apart. Simple, right? Military Police are supposed to be good at this breaking up fights without busting heads too much. Supposedly. But sometimes they get their heads busted. The Sergeant makes a grab for Kapali but just as she makes the lunge, her fellow Marine steps back suddenly and they collide! The MP doesn't get a good grip and staggers, "Sergeant Kapali, halt!"

Meanwhile Ynyr's initial grab goes somewhat better, getting his arms around Toby's upper arms from behind but Lleu's healing arm and leg, and his own mass, aren't quite up to pulling the Tauron off of Kapali nor sufficiently pinning Toby's arms, "You heard me. Break it up! Neither one of you want to be rotting in the brig tonight. Come to the Wake!"

Kapali literally has blood in her eyes as she evades the attempt by Toby to corner her against the bulkhead or the glass, the step back taking her out of Toby's immediate reach but instead slams her back against the MP that was wading into the mix. She turns, a half step taken toward the female half of the MP pair and stops so abruptly that she just stands in place and breathes. Slowly. Both hands are clenched in fists, there's blood running down her face and she takes the moment to breathe through it. "Frakken idiot," she spits the words at Toby. "If you hate yourself so frakking much you need more therapy than the rest of us do. If you're lucky, you'll ask for it and accept it when it's available. Or you can keep hating yourself into the grave," she bares her teeth at him in a bloody snarl, "and no one will miss you when you're there. Get your head out of your ass and fight the same fight that the rest of us are fighting. Anything else is just bullshit until the current war is over. There's a frakking line, asshole, and your fight isn't next on the list."

Toby can feel Lleu's arm go round his, or try to, but it registers in his head about as much as a gnat would. His arms are rolled outwards to dislodge it, as his head slams backwards to bounce the back of his thick skull into whoever it is that's trying to keep him from Kapali. Once free he doesn't even pause to listen to her words, he's just straight back to leading with his right as the fire in his eyes shows no signs of diminishing.

<FS3> Opposed Roll — Toby=body+melee Vs Kapali=reaction+alertness
< Toby: Amazing Success Kapali: Success
< Net Result: Toby wins - Crushing Victory

Even mindful to keep his head tilted off to the side, Lleu gets hauled around and then head slammed right in the face! "Son of a bitch!" That hurt, and at once has given him a bloody nose. He looks ready to jump right in and start pounding on Shackleton himself except that he's on duty. Ynyr sees Kapali stop when told to, but Toby going after her again anyway! "That is quite enough." Lleu doesn't go for his sidearm but he does pull his tazor and aims it at the Tauron. MP Tazors can even drop a skinjob with a solid hit. The stud is depressed and the wire darts shot at Shackleton's back.

<FS3> Lleufer rolls Firearms: Great Success.

Every once in a while Kapali is reminded that, in a fair fight, she can hold her own, a good half of the time. But as there is no such thing as a fair fight (and, should you find one, the game is rigged, demand a refund), she goes flying back and rebounds off of the armored glass. She doesn't even see the hit, that's how hard her hit her; in a way it's just a blur of movement followed by impact and sliding against the window like some sort of bug on a windshield. Leu's voice is just so much noise as she is shaking her head, hands braced against her knees as she tries to shake it off, ears ringing, the buzz of the tazer only adding to the noise.

While words and fists can't stop a raging Tauran, 50,000 volts certainly can. As Kapali goes down Toby steps in again, not giving her space to recover herself and starting another swing when the darts impact. The pinpricks he doesn't feel, but the electricity applied a fraction of a second later has him quite literally screaming in agony. Only for a second though, as then all his muscels lock up and he drops to the floor like a puppet that’s had its strings cut. Once down he can do nothing at all but twitch under the current, everything in his head fading to fog under the sheer magnitude of burning pain.

Lleufer has been hit by a tazor himself, twice in fact within the past year when he tried to fight off MP's down on Piraeus. It went no better for Ynyr than it does for Shackleton. Lleu keeps the charge flowing until he's sure Toby is down, then lets it off. He at once motions for the MP Sergeant to cuff the Tauron while the Deckie is still down and numb witted. "Now I know that hurt like Hades. Sometimes it's better to listen."

The tazor is holstered and Lleu steps around to go to Kapali, "Think we should get you medical to be checked out. Then you are going to have to come down to the brig for an interview. Obs Deck tape'll have to be reviewed and see what charges will be pressed." Does she need a hand up to steady her?

With her hands braced against her knees, and shaking her head carefully from side to side, Kapali enjoys - frankly ENJOYS - watching Toby getting the snot tazered out of him. It's only that her head feels funny when she shakes it side to side that keeps her from putting boots to Toby while he's on the ground. As it is, there's the enjoyment fact but really. . she is straightening away from the glass and takes a step toward Toby when Lleu walks over and she straightens. Carefully. "Don't suppose you could just turn around for a moment so that I can kick him a few times?" she wonders in a low voice then wipes at her face with the back of one hand again. "Ech," she makes this disgusted sound, "not medical." Then eyes Toby again, one eye already starting to swell, "It was just a spirited political debate that got out of hand."

Ynyr grins and /both/ sides of his mouth show it, though not equally yet. Go nanites! "As much as I'd like to, no. I can't do that, I'm sorry." His eyes narrow, "Yes, medical. That is an order, Sergeant. If he didn't concuss you with that last blow, I'll eat my dirty socks. Come along and we'll escort you to medical, see you go in, and we'll take him down to the brig. Not sure if you are going to make it to the Wake tonight."

The Sergeant, she isn't going to be able to get Toby to his feet by herself. So Lleufer goes over to take Shackleton's other arm and between the two of them, they can drag him up between them. "Come on, Sunshine. We've got a bunk for you. Let's go." Kapali too.

Kapali makes a disgusted sound, "I'll be at the wake. Medical can kiss my marine ass if they think I'm staying there," she mutters as she prepares to stalk along behind Lleu, his fellow MP, and Toby slung between the two of them. "Hey, your words are sounding better, not slurring as much. What gives?" not even remotely tactful there with the question, as she's just noticed AND she's hit her head. All excuses apply.

Lleufer smiles and lifts a hand to tap the side of his skull with a finger, "Arpay nanites. Rebuilding the damage done to my head, arm and leg. About another week to go and I should be good as new." It's not her imagination that he's speaking more clearly. The four of them head out of the Obs Deck and over to medical on the way to the brig. Nothing like a little fight to make your afternoon entertaining.

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